Pro Athletes Need to Leave the Past Behind

Bad boys are bad boys. Without money they are looking for ways to finance being a bad boy. With money they don’t have to waste time looking for the money they just go straight to financing being bad. Everybody knew they were bad before they signed the contract and it wasn’t a problem because their was money to be made. Everybody plays hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil, until it becomes public knowledge that they have bad behavior, then everybody’s got an opinion and everybody’s up in arms. What a hypocritical society we live in.

The subtext of your commentary indicts black atheletes, and maybe that’s a good thing. However I don’t feel black journalists should cast themselves in the image of apologists wishing to point out to the white managing editors that they can be hyper-critical towards black atheletes and celebrities. One thing for certain, black atheletes don’t have a monopoly on obnoxious behavior, however their persona seems cast as incorrigable. There has always been a trend in American media which portrayed black males as irresponsible and destructive, from the negative ink given to Martin or Malcolm contemporaneously. This has not changed. Mike Vick gets kicked in the ass by the media because those who dominate the media have a hidden agenda and the exploited athelete become a scape goat. Just look at the double standard in the media with the Phil Specter murder trial which has been placed on hold and is no longer a media issue. Black celebs on the other hand belong to the plantation market and unfortunately fail to be insulated by the community they represent which is truly in a better position to assess whats sins they commit versus the good that the bring back to where they started.

“Pro Atheletes need to leave their pasts behind.”

Couldn’t the same rule apply to reporters who leave their Catholic faith and use their stature to wield the axe against it?

Jonathan,

And this is your problem. The “faith” is Christianity – Jesus Christ. Catholicism is a denomination. That’s your problem. I never left the faith. I just left a place that left me unfulfilled, and I’ve never wavered since. I’m a stronger Christian today than ever. Isn’t that what’s important?

Usually personal attacks are the communication method of choice for those who feed on, and are sustained by, fear. Even self-described “scrappy conservatives” should know this. Right, Mr. Carpenter?

Brian,
In all fairness I don’t think Mr. Carpenter’s attack was inappropriately personal when taken in context of Mr. Martin’s post regarding the “old man trying to get a little attention.”

Roland,
Well, it certainly is important and we can leave it at that. I think your post last week re the Catholic Church would have benefited by the type of measure and restraint you have since exhibited in your combox responses. And good for you in getting rid of that old fat tie. Your current one is both more dignified and more dashing.

Cheers!

Well that just shows you don’t understand what is a personal attack, Mike.

Did you see Emmitt Smith comment on the same issue to ESPN?

Smith, who was enshrined in the College Football Hall of Fame on Saturday along with 19 others, was asked what he thought about the Vick situation. He said he believes federal investigators are trying to pressure Vick to turn on the others.

“Now, granted he might have been to a dogfight a time or two, maybe five times, maybe 20 times, may have bet some money, but he’s not the one you’re after. He’s not the one you’re after, he’s just the one whose going to take the fall — publicly.”

But Smith also placed some blame on Vick, saying athletes need to realize they have to break ties with some people from their past “because where we’re going, it’s not for everybody to come with us. You have to learn to cut some of those guys loose. Because the things that they do, we cannot do no more.”

Smith, the NFL’s career leading rusher, said young athletes have to make decisions about who they associate with because it could harm their careers.

“From an athletic standpoint, from an endorsement standpoint, from an investment standpoint, from a business standpoint, those doors are opening. The question is now, do you want to do the same old junk you’ve been doing for 18 or 20-something years, or do you want to step into the real world of business and handle your business like you’re supposed to handle it?”

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2944662

Mr. Martin can worship God however he wants. What bothers me about his previous post on Catholicism is that it proves the worst Anti-Catholics are former Catholics. It also shows a reporter who while being able to right eloquent and snappy prose did not do one once of research on his topic. Read the following post and you will see Mr. Martin is misinformed to put it mildly regarding Catholicism.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288976,00.html

Not that the topic you bring again to this discussion, Mr. Carpenter, is particularly germane to the article on Pro Athletes, but here is an article that is food for thought in the debate you bring:
http://www.oikoumene.org/en/news/news-management/all-news-english/display-single-english-news/article/1634/wcc-deputy-general-secret.html

The World Council of Churches exhibited a very even response to the issue while affirming much of what Mr. Martin has expressed in his article on the same subject.

I appreciate this column and the shows on WVON that you’ve done on this topic. I think it needs to be discussed and discussed. Vick makes more money than 99.9% of the world, WHATEVER COLOR..

Is it too much to ask that as he tries to find amusement…THAT IT BE LEGAL?

I don’t really see how hard this is. It’s not that hard at all.

He’s jeopardizing Michael Vick, Inc. to keep ahold of folks that obviously don’t mean him well. As you said this morning on WVON – a FRIEND would never EVER put Vick in this position in the first place.

“Is it too much to ask that as he tries to find amusement…THAT IT BE LEGAL?”

I think that is a really good question and gets to the heart of the matter. It should be a question asked of anyone with not only wealth but the ability to influence the choices children make in their lives.

The senseless violence towards these animals is what’s MOST important. People that condone these activities are just as guilty as the people organizing these events. And to care about Vick loosing anything is repugnant. He gets what he deserves, be it by the public (who in the big picture, pay his bills by purchasing products he endorses), or in the court.

There is a difference between the burden of proof needed for the state or US govt to successfully prosecute a “criminal” case (resulting in a conviction) versus the burden of proof we, as ordinary citizens, should use to be convinced that Michael Vick’s actions re: these dogs is true and derserving of punishment (loss of job, loss of status, loss of money, etc.). In fact, if these dogs were people they would have the right to sue Vick civilly, under a much lower evidence (burden of proof) standard and recover monetary damages.

I have heard so much about his being so-called innocent until proven guilty, but what about our “common sense” burden finding that if it quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it IS a duck.

Donna G.
http://www.donnatoo.blogspot.com

I have to say, that I could not agree with you in 100% regarding Pro Athletes Need to Leave the Past Behind, but it’s just my opinion, which could be wrong

It’s a shame that while anyone engaged in cruelty to animals can rightly be prosecuted, abortionists legally kill more than one million human children every year with a license from the state, the modern day equivalent of Auschwitz.

No one is more affected by this carnage than African-Americans. Planned Parenthood was started by a racist woman who wanted to exterminate minoritiers. One third of all aborted U.S. babies are black; more than half are minorities of one kind or another (www.blackgenocide.org, http://www.choicenazi.com, http://www.klanparenthood.com).

This is the ultimate form of genocide: convincing your target population to do your dirty work for you. This has everything to do with the destruction of the black family, the crime rate in the black community, and the appalling condition of inner city schools. The Bible says those live by the sword will die by the sword; we reap what we sow. Only when respect is restored for the weakest and most innocent among us will peace and prosperity return and God be able to heal this land.

We are no longer the land of the free and the home of the brave. We are the land of the baby killers and home of the cowards.

Correction: the word “minorities” in paragraph 2 was misspelled. The submission should have read:

It’s a shame that while anyone engaged in cruelty to animals can rightly be prosecuted, abortionists legally kill more than one million human children every year with a license from the state, the modern day equivalent of Auschwitz.

No one is more affected by this carnage than African-Americans. Planned Parenthood was started by a racist woman who wanted to exterminate minorities. One third of all aborted U.S. babies are black; more than half are minorities of one kind or another (www.blackgenocide.org, http://www.choicenazi.com, http://www.klanparenthood.com).

This is the ultimate form of genocide: convincing your target population to do your dirty work for you. This has everything to do with the destruction of the black family, the crime rate in the black community, and the appalling condition of inner city schools. The Bible says those live by the sword will die by the sword; we reap what we sow. Only when respect is restored for the weakest and most innocent among us will peace and prosperity return and God be able to heal this land.

We are no longer the land of the free and the home of the brave. We are the land of the baby killers and home of the cowards.

Mr. Coatney, out of curiosity, what do you think would be an appropriate sentence for a woman who had an abortion, should it be made illegal in the U.S.? Life in prison? Death penalty?

And before you jump to conclusions in this certainly off-topic post, I am not “pro abortion” or “pro genocide,” etc. I am asking a simple question. If you can give me an answer that is both the product of well-researched Biblical scholarship AND satisfies the sensibilities of the U.S. justice system (the proverbial “reasonable man or woman test”), then you will have a strong argument for your position that is both persuasive and reasonable.

As it is, the argument you have presented is neither persuasive nor reasonable. There is nothing simple about this entire issue. Those who present an “easy fix” are selling something – regardless of what side they are on.

Mr. Barrister, you say that my argument is “neither persuasive nor reasonable” or that there is “nothing simple” about the issue, but you don’t state your objections. Perhaps the following Bible verses will shed light.

The Bible uses the same words to describe unborn children as children already born. The Greek word “brephos” refers to the unborn child in Luke 1:41,44; a newborn baby in Luke 2:12,16; and infants or children in Luke 18:15, Acts 7:19, 2 Tim. 3:15, and 2 Peter 2:2. The Hebrew word “yeled”, used 89 times in the Old Testament, normally refers to “youth” or “teenager” but in Exodus 21:22 refers to the unborn child. Since unborn children are described in the same terms as those already born, the same Biblical prohibition of murder applies to the unborn as to everyone else.

According to Exodus 21:22-25 brawling men who injured a pregnant woman so that she gave birth prematurely were to be fined, even no other harm was done. If additional harm was caused, however, the punishment was eye for eye, tooth for tooth, and life for life. This punishment applied even if the incident was accidental.

It is true that God is a forgiving God. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, who deserved death under Old Testament law, to “go her way and sin no more”. Yet, God is a righteous God who cannot condone sin. It is clear from many Bible verses that He hates the shedding of innocent blood. For example, see Gen. 4:9,10; Ex. 20:13, 23:7: Deut. 27:25; 2 Ki. 8:12, 15:16; Ps. 10:8, 106:37-42; Prov. 6:16-19; Is. 59:7; and Jer. 7:6, 22:3; Hos. 13:16; Joel 3:19; Amos 1:13; Micah 3:1-4; and many others.

I can only conclude that whatever punishment applies to the murder of those already born should also apply to the murder of the unborn child, up to and including death. See Gen. 9:6, Ex. 21:12,14; Deut. 19:11,12; Nu. 35:3;

For commentary on these issues, see “Abortion and Exodus 21″ at http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2598 and “The Blood Cries Out” at http://www.restoringamerica.org/PastorPage/the_blood_cries_out.htm.

P.S. My original comment was based on the hypocrisy of those who would condemn Michael Vick for engaging in or promoting dogfighting yet allow tyhe killers of unborn children go free. Though dogfighting is cruel and should be outlawed, it does not compare to the murder of a human being. Only humans are created in God’s image according to the bible.

It is worth considering that according to the U.S. Supreme Court Dred Scott decision slaves had no more rights than farm animals. They could be bought, sold, and even killed by their masters with no legal restriction or punishment. The same applied in Nazi Germany to Jews. The same attitude towards unborn children has been adopted as public policy in our nation since Roe v. Wade. Just because something is legal doesn’t make it right in the eyes of God. God Himself will judge individuals and nations which disregard His commandments.

No, Mr. Coatney, your answer does not show sufficient Biblical scholarship. Sure, you can prooftext all you want. Both “sides” of this argument can. That does not make the argument hold together. Neither does referring to Nazis or Dred Scott – both of which have no bearing on this issue save as incendiary textual devices.

What I want to see is a cogent argument that is less of a jumble of Biblical references and more of a logical argument that respects both Biblical texts as well as traditional U.S. jurisprudence.

If you wish to treat abortions as a social malady then please address it in that context and speak of the root causes and concerns in that context. This is my chief objection to your reasoning, or rather the lack thereof. You speak of a possible broad social ill but do not address its possible real-world causes or effects – regarding the woman, the possible father or even society at large. Instead, a flimsy appeal to Biblical passages taken completely out of textual context is proferred. This, unfortunately, is the typical fare of zealots on both “sides” of this argument.

Try again, Mr. Coatney. This process may benefit you should you wish to seem more convincing in the future – or at least logical.

P.S. It is customary to correctly spell the name of the person with whom one is conversing in such a format. I am no barrister though I suppose, had I chosen a different path in life, that calling might have appealed to me.

I did not misspell your name intentionally, but from the tone of your reply you should call yourself Aleck, as in “Smart” Aleck – and that’s putting it nicely.

I see no use in continuing a conversation wityh a person as blind to the truth as you appear to be. You asked me to give you an answer that was “both the product of well-researched Biblical scholarship AND satisfies the sensibilities of the U.S. justice system”. I’ve given you an answer based on what the Bible says. Abortion is a social malady, alright. It’s murder, and there is no excuse for it. The root cause is greed and selfishness, like any other sin.

I’m not taking verses out of context. I’m telling you what the bible says in plain language. The Bible is very clear that those thinking themselves to be wise in opposition to God’s Word become fools in danger of Hellfire. I encourage you to repent of your complicity in the murder of innocent children.

As for waht the U.S. justice system says, I could care less. I’m not going to stand before the U.S. Supreme Court when I die. I’m going to stand before the Supreme Court of the Universe – and so will you. For an illustrated version of what you might face, check out “Who Killed Clarice” at http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1009/1009_01.asp.

P.S. You might try reading the verses before you accuse me of taking them out of context. Psalm 106:37-42 refers to the Canaanite practice of child sacrifice, adopted by the Israelites when they turned away from God to worship idols. In this passage God says they sacrificed their sons and daughters to devils, the land became polluted with blood, and He punished them because of their sin.

Abortion was not as widespread, but known, and condemned by the early church for the same reason, based on biblical teaching. From your comments it is apparent you do not accept the humanity of the unborn child, which is supported by the verses I quoted. This is exactly the same mistake made by those who dehumanized Jews, slaves, or anyone else throughout human history. It is not an “incendiary textual device” to make this comparison. It is reality. If the shoe fits, wear it.

It’s not that the argument is illogical. The problem is that it doesn’t fit your preconceived notions re: the abortion issue. Rather than ridicule the message you should ask God to give you a repentant heart so that you will be in a position to help the weak and the innocent rather than destroy them. Isn’t that supposed to be the measure of a great civilization? We all have sinned, but according to 2 Chronicles 7:14 God will heal our land only if we humble ourselves and repent.

P.P.S. It was not my mention to misspell your name. While typing out my reply the spelling I typed came to mind and I did not proofread before submitting the reply. It was completely unintentional and I apologize for that. There are often typos in my comments because I don’t take time to proofread, which I should do.

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article Pro Athletes Need to Leave the Past Behind, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.

“I encourage you to repent of your complicity in the murder of innocent children.”

As a person who has worked many years in the Lord’s service, I find it interesting that you have come to this conclusion merely from a few paragraphs from me on the poor quality of your Biblical scholarship and the complete nonsense of your argument. I do not see how my earnest criticism somehow equates me with murderers. A pretty big leap, don’t you think?

Perhaps I did not make myself clear from the outset: I am not a “pro-choice” or “pro-life” zealot. I find that both “sides” that have aligned against each other rarely tell the whole truth of the experience many women and men have faced and the choices they have made.

All I have asked for you to do is address the subject of “abortion” in its totality, not come forward with a paper-thin word jumble that is barely fit for a bumper sticker, much less a more serious subject such as this.

Your words are fine enough when you are preaching to a choir of your peers who believe the same as you. They are not quite enough, though, to dry the tears of those who have suffered through rough choices in life and need to be enfolded in the loving arms of Christ. Can you be Christ to them, Mr. Coatney? Or will they meet with the countenance of a more angry deity?

So, you’re blaming Michael Vick’s troubles on his friends? He is a grown man who can handle a multi-million dollar football career but doesn’t know that dog fighting is a bad thing? I don’t think so. The man is a thug, bordering on sociopath. He has no business representing a professional sports team. He has no business being in society, even! The day that you tell me it’s okay to hang or drown a perfectly healthy dog is the day I say “uncle”. >:-(

Why should they have to leave their past behind. People hunt and kill all types of animals. Look at fishing. They catch them on that hook and say it doesn’t hurt! Who are they kidding?! They should get out of their ivory towers and either outlaw hunting or legalize dogfighting!

I totally agree with your article Where is the outrage when humans are abused? I could not put my finger on it or say it as clearly as you did. I do not agree that Michael Vick should go unpunished but it made me so angry when people were just so dam outraged but could care less about other things or did not get as outraged at other things going on in the world. I am currently in Afghanistan and wish that people would get this outraged about what it going on here and in Iraq. There are so many young, unnecessary deaths occuring over here both military and civilain, so where is the outrage an d that is just 1 topic.

I have to say, that I could not agree with you regarding article Pro Athletes Need to Leave the Past Behind, but your opinion is interesting

Great post on Pro Athletes Need to Leave the Past Behind. Keep up the good work. Cheers!